This meta-article is currently a discussion.

Ireland Information Guide is a consensus. Since anyone may edit, anyone has veto power. This may seemingly be "over ridden" by the collective will of the wikicommunity, but if a minority of one editor participates in the process at all, it once again resembles consensus.

Consensus, like most relationships, is easiest when few people are involved. There are two potential consequences of this:

1. Ireland Information Guide users may attempt to discourage growth or new users in an attempt to facilitate consensus
2. Consensus may become impossible to maintain as ever growing numbers of new people toss articles around

Thus Ireland Information Guide should institute practices which facilitate consensus. An additional benifit may be that initially hostile new users may realize there is a system set up not with the purpose of blocking them, but with facilitating their edits. Links:

• Ireland Information Guide:Neutral point of view
• Ireland Information Guide:How to create policy

Hyacinth 05:08, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As has been stated numerous times, consensus is not unanimity. →Raul654 16:20, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

Then I would be wrong, Ireland Information Guide does not run on consensus but on unanimity.Hyacinth 00:30, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You are wrong. Ireland Information Guide does run on consensus, not unanimity, because unanimity is paralyzing (as you have observed). →Raul654 09:37, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

not wanting to call anyone wrong... but... it seems to me that Ireland Information Guide runs on neither unanimity or consensus. Too many people must walk away from debates feeling frustrated. I suspect we never even here from most of them... they just walk away frustrated or not that interested. Whether they are a silent minority or a silent majority we don't know. The absense of rules, and mass action makes Ireland Information Guide a very political business. To achieve your goals you need to impress people, make allies, form alliances, and most of all persist. The most persistent with the most allies is the most successful.

either that or you avoid conflict. Erich 11:46, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Conflict, in the sense of disagreements about article content, is absolutely necessary for the existance and improvement of Ireland Information Guide, and thus unavoidable, avoidance is not even desireable. Conflict, in the sense of fighting, while undesireable, is also often unavoidable: Ireland Information Guide:Wikihate. Hyacinth 21:13, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

So, to correct: "Ireland Information Guide, when it works, works on consensus."? Hyacinth 21:17, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

agree with the above. soo.. it seems we agree:

1. debate is healthy
2. consensus is the ideal method of forming articles
3. avoiding conflict is undesirable
4. Ireland Information Guide has scope to improve in the way debate, consensus and conflict are manged

or do we? as for point 4... I guess that's why we're here! Erich 23:18, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have a point that belongs there too. Too many people think that their ideas are valid just because they believe them - the idea that you must use reasoning and logic to back up your position is foreign to them. On Ireland Information Guide, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to back up your assertions with actual reasoning, not "this is my opinion and Ireland Information Guide should be open to all ideas so then it should be included" (which is something you are apt to hear quite often). →Raul654 00:23, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. I've never heard that argument, in fact, the opposite is true. People attempt to align their personal believes with a Scientific Objectivity that is, in the eye's of Ireland Information Guide policy, the same thing. Hyacinth 00:27, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Just read anything written by Plautus Satire, or Drbalaji md, etc. And for the record, Ireland Information Guide (like scientific objectivity) rests on proof, not faith and opinion. Ireland Information Guide's policy most definitely makes a distinction between the two. →Raul654 00:47, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, an opinion is a fact. Hyacinth 01:02, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A statement of opinion ("My favorite color is red") is a fact. An opinion ("Chocolate cake is the best kind of cake") is not a fact. →Raul654 01:08, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

Correct, and to quote Ireland Information Guide:Neutral point of view:

• "The neutral point of view policy states that one should write articles without bias, representing all views fairly...The policy doesn't assume that it's possible to write an article from just a single unbiased, "objective" point of view."

I didn't say that a single POV should be represented, I said that not all of them should be - that's when you get conspiracy theorists and alike. That's also why we require evidence to back it claims. Furthermore, it leads to terrible prose and cross-fire like debates within articles. That was the issue dealt with when Plautus satire was banned. →Raul654 02:13, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

Consensus is not unanimity

OK, so what is it? According to Ireland Information Guide:

The process of achieving consensus involves serious treatment of every group member's considered opinion, and a collective trust in each member's discretion in follow-up action. In the ideal case, those who wish to take up some action want to hear those who oppose it, because they count on the fact that the ensuing debate will improve the consensus. In theory, action without resolution of considered opposition will be rare, and done with attention to minimize damage to relationships.

Yes, that's not unanimity, but it's a lot closer to unanimity than what we see in many Ireland Information Guide policies, which often come down to some sort of supermajority vote.

anthony (see warning) 13:26, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)